Frugality is a waste of time
I received a comment this morning on our Frugal Lunch post that made me very angry. First, the commenter used the F-word. That’s a no-no. Read my Commenting Policy. I tagged him/her as spam.
I’ve already responded directly to the commenter, but I wanted to respond to the commenter’s message as a post for all of you to read. Here is what the commenter said (edited):
I guess if you made enough money you wouldn’t give a (edited) what bread, peanut butter, or tuna costs.
Here’s a thought, instead of trying to find ways to save .20 on bread, or eating food that tastes like dog food, find a better day job? More school? Start a company?
I didn’t mean to switch the rotation of your earth’s orbit, but if you put 1/2 of the amount of time into finding ways to make money then you did into finding bottled water, cheap tuna, or peanut butter, you might be on to something.
We’re not poor, but we’re not rich. We make a lot of money compared to our relatives, but we also live in an expensive area (Washington, D.C. area) . There’s a reason we were able to pay down $35,000 in car debt in 2.5 years, but I want to bring this discussion above our situation. I can see why people who read frugality articles often wonder what is the point of trying to save pennies.
But pennies add up into dollars. And in the case of Frugal Lunch, they add up to $988, and that’s a VERY conservative estimate of the costs of eating out for lunch. I could easily revise the dining-out costs to be $7.50 per day ($1378/year savings), all the way up to $12-14 per day($2548-$3068/year), based on 5 days a week, 52 weeks per year. I understand we take vacations and sometimes work from home, so maybe knock 2-4 weeks off those totals. You’ll still end up with big numbers.
I’m going to wrap this up now, and request your comments. But I want to leave with one piece of advice:
$7.50 per day is a very reasonable estimate, especially in a city like DC. Don’t forget to include transportation costs for driving or riding the subway or buses, as not every workplace has a cafe or will be in walking distance of a restaurant.
By packing your lunch, you are finding creative ways to save money and reach your financial goals. In the process, you are helping other peopole do the same thing by writing about it.
Your post adds value. The comment? Not so much.
I must admit that I partially agree with the comment. Although I started out very frugal, and still brown bag my lunch, drink filtered water rather than bottled, drive a 7 year old compact car that we bought with cash ec. I spend a LOT more time these days thinking about ways to save tax, reduce my investment risks, increase investment yield, cut investment costs (eg. retirement fund fees) etc. than I spend thinking about ways to save a few more cents (although I still by petrol on the day of the week that has the best price, clip coupons, stock up on groceries that are on special etc.)
Although being frugal is a good starting point, and keeping the frugal habit is better than becomming profligate once you accumulate a bit of money, it loses its relative importance once your net worth gets up to more than 2-3 years worth of income. These days I’m frugal out of habit and because I ENJOY being frugal, rather than for the impact it has on my wealth. It’s also good to remain frugal in order to set a good example for my kids – otherwise you probably end up fulfilling the old adage that it takes three generations to build up wealth and then squander it all away again.
Regards
http://enoughwealth.com
I think the guy has a point to an extent, I just think he chose to relay in a not so welcoming manor. Let’s say hypothetical Bob and Sussie (random couple names) spend one hour a day clipping coupons, searching the net for sales, discussing strategy to pay down debt, etc.
Well, the question then becomes what if they spent that 1 hour a day working on different ways to make more money? And, mathematically speaking, if they save $120 a month let’s say by being frugal, that is roughly $4 an hour ($120 / 30 hours). If they can make more than $4 an hour through new venues with that extra 30 hours, than being frugal doesn’t have to be an option anymore.
That’s my interpretation at least, it is all relative.
Yeah I think you both have very valid useful points, although yours was much more eloquently brought across.
Sometimes it makes sense to spend the time to cut your costs and other times it is more efficient to use that time to increase your income.
There’s two ways to create wealth. The first as you pointed out is to cut your expenses. The second which I think the commenter suggested is to increase your income. Combine them and you’re really onto something!
it’s pretty simple.
do ’em both.
or don’t. but don’t run down people who do.
I’m afraid I have to agree with Blain. The guy was clearly a jerk for saying it like he did, but you can focus on either side of the equation – save money or make money. They’re both valid. And clearly you understand that.
Sometimes I think Ernest Haskins is right: “Save a little money each month and at the end of the year you’ll be surprised at how little you have.”
That said, I am frugal (just ask my friends). It’s just that there are ‘levels’ of frugality.
For me being frugal is as much about changing relationship and my inner character than it is saving a few pennies. I am frugal because I dreams in life that I want to fulfill, and readjusting my actions to align with those goals is extremely important. With that said the commenter makes the point that changing our job satisfaction, revenue streams, and even careers can also pay huge lasting changes in our overall wealth. A lot of times being frugal is often, especially being frugal without focusing on changing our behavior and character is much easier than changing our social skills, designing a business, risking the failure, etc.
Here’s a thought, instead of trying to find ways to save .20 on bread, or eating food that tastes like dog food, find a better day job? More school? Start a company?
But what if I like my current job. Maybe I need to trade on something, and I’d rather trade on eating cheap lunches than stressing over a new job.
Some people prefer to try to save money rather than increase their income – its a better psychological fit.
For someone not making much, saving pennies can be substantial. We’ve probably all been there.
As your income increases, saving pennies becomes less important, but saving dollars still matters. That’s probably where many of us are now.
The problem is that the same mindset that lets you waste pennies will let you waste dollars.
A friend and I were recently discussing net worth (in conceptual terms, not specifics). He noted that an acquaintance with a seven figure net worth was agonizing over an economy car purchase, and commented that if he (my friend, not my friend’s acquaintance) were worth that much he wouldn’t worry about the cost of a car.
I didn’t say it, but thought to myself, that is exactly why my friend will never have a substantial net worth.
Wealthy people don’t get that way by spending. If you look at truly wealthy people (not rich, I think there’s a difference between being rich and being wealthy), they look for ways to NOT spend money. They didn’t accumulate that wealth by accident.
Look at Warren Buffet, for example. Here’s one of the wealthiest men in the world and he still lives in the original house he purchased for about 31k and drove a 2001 Lincoln until he recently auctioned it on EBay for a nice little profit.
All of you are right. I recognized that the commenter had a legitimate point, but he used a word I have forbidden on this site (and in my own home, lest I pay $5 to the swear jar). That just really set me off.
I’ve chosen to stay in a field that pays very well (not as well as stock brokers and such, but much better than a teacher (at my age and experience level), etc.). I’d love to switch careers, but I would have to make a significant change in my lifestyle, and probably even move out of DC. However, that’s actually part of our long-term plan.
For now, I’m trying to save by not spending, or not overspending, and paying down debt. I could accelerate things very quickly by dumping my Ridgeline, but that’s part of the lifestyle I’m still holding onto.
I think the commenter missed the point of this blog. Most people who are frugal don’t go into a whole analysis every day, but Clever Dude is helping us out by showing us how to apply a frugal mindset to every day living. Once you establish that mindset, you don’t end up spending a whole lot of your time trying to save money — much of it happens automatically.
Anyone can live beyond their means — and Americans are well-known for it (http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2005/05/30/dodge-warning050530.html). Recently I read a news article about some multi-millionaire who was warned by his financial advisors about his ridiculously high debt-to-income ratio, and how he needed to reduce spending. How? This guy had no idea of what it means to reduce spending. Can someone be truly happy when they know they have to keep cranking out income to keep up with their spending habits? To me that is much more of a burden than showing the restraint of not buying the most fancy TV or car or house.
I think the commentor misses the point that you can’t always just go somewhere else and make more money. I would hazard a guess that the commentor is a single person under the age of 30 with no mortgage and no kids. I know I may be a bit patronizing when I say this, but the truth is that when you have adult debts and responsibilities (mortgage, car, cc debt, kids in school, etc) you tend to make job change decisions a much more conservatively. A change in job not only affects you, but affects your family. Getting a job that makes more money and demands that you spend more time at the office is not necessarily the best trade off. In 1997, I quit a higher paying job as a Network Administrator at a pharmaceutical company after 8 days because I knew that the extra money was not going to make up for all the lost time with my wife and our young son. I wasn’t going to miss out on them for an extra 5K a year. It’s all about your priorities in life.
Your commenter is clearly a person who hasn’t actually run a company. There’s a whole other level of headache that goes with it. I’ve run my parents’ store for them and it can suck having to tell employees to follow the dress code and behave like adults. Sometimes people make choices as befits what they want in life.
There’s a saying: To each their own
Clearly your commenter is just a rude troll.
I’ll be sure to drop the F-bomb on you east coast style when I see you this week. heh heh 😉
I agree with the commenters who think both are important, spending less and making more.
When frugality is really important is in situations where cutting your high, fixed monthly costs (rent, car payment) any further is not possible, and where raising your income any further in not either.
We are sort of in that position right now, living in the cheapest housing we can for our situation and bringing in the most income we currently can for our situation. So how do we get ahead a bit? Frugality. And in the future if we make more money or are able to reduce our larger expenses (both of which will hopefully happen at some point)? Then we will still try to be frugal, but maybe not quite as much or as often.
I agree that time and energy spent should be in relation to the amount of money saved or earned, but that doesn’t mean frugality is a waste of time, only that it shouldn’t deter one from focusing on making any changes possible that may benefit him/her even more than frugality might.
one thing i hate is paying a lot of money for crappy food, and i’ve spent some big bucks eating at some fancy restaurants for terrible food. i’ve also spent little money on excellent food.
bottom line, it doesn’t matter what you focus on to save towards your goals. one person’s peanut butter, is another person’s dog food. frugality is how you define it, whether it be ramen every day or lunch at cipriani’s. it’s all about how you want to live your life. bon appetite!
Simply put, there are three ways to add to your disposable income:
Spend less, earn more, or do both.
Personally, I love my current job, so I had to learn how to cut expenses.
NCN
There’s a saying in my family, “if you use a four letter word, then you are a four penny person”
In other words, you’re not worth much if you resort to obscenity.
On the other hand, managing money is difficult for Americans because it takes values our society doesn’t have anymore like:
Hard work,
Delayed gratification,
Patience,
and Good Stewardship.
You don’t necessarily have to look for “deals” with the frugal lunch concept, just understand that anything a restaurant sells is cheaper when made at home. (Tastier too) Just that change, even if you move from restaurant steaks to home-grilled steaks can save you hundreds of dollars, without checking prices.
rich people stay rich by paying people who dedicate their lives to investing other people’s money and to look on how to cut corners on taxes.
look at michael jackson (not now, but during the 80’s)…he listened to the advice of paul mccartney, and bought the rights to songs, they just happened to be the beatles catalogs. yeah, he got even more richer by doing that. can any of us just drop money like that on investments, if so, please contact me 🙂
normal people do not have the benefits of the rich, no matter how many pennies they save. if that was the case, everyone would be living on easy street.
people get rich by luck and talent. if you do not have a supply of either, you become part of the working poor.
the key to obtaining material riches in life…look at the cost of something. divide that number by how much you make an hour after taxes. then realize, “is this new (insert object here) worth that many hours of work”. if it isn’t don’t buy it, and you saved your money.
and one more idea: better food is worth it. that is why you see more lower paid people always at the doctors, because the food they are eating is junk. spending a lil more on better quality food saves your sick hours for extreme times of need, and saves you on any costs on co-pay.
that is realist’s tip of the day: buy more fruits and veggies.
I think about frugality in the little things in life: the food and clothes I buy, where I buy my gasoline, and turning off the light when I walk out of a room. I don’t think about the bigger picture financially–I leave that up to my husband! I think my post a while back was meant to touch those of us who want to think about the little things, who want to make a small difference in our daily lives. But then again, I live by the idea that I can touch one person’s life in this world and make a difference–I’m not out to change the WHOLE world (though it’s a nice thought). Same thing for me living frugally–make a small change and you’re more apt to stick to it.
Don’t sweat it dude…I was an avid reader of your blog while I was in college. And I’ve bee frugal for as long as I can remember. It’s worse right now.
My roommates laughed at me when I went around replacing bulbs in certain fixtures with CFL’s and reducing the number of bulbs (who needs 4 bulbs in one fixture?). They laughed when I went around turning off monitors in the apartment (We had 3 computers…on just about 24 hours a day). They laughed when I went online and shopped around for the cheapest electricity provider in my area. They laughed when I ran fans instead of AC.
Now I’m out of college, live on my own and my last months electricity was $26.00. Their’s is almost $200.00. Who’s laughing now?
My point is…Frugality is a good habit no matter who you are and where you end up. Sure, Bill Gates doesn’t go around packing his own lunch, but he’s STILL rich because he’s frugal in other ways.
The commenter has a slight point, but he’s still an idiot. You increase your income then buy a car you can’t afford….Then where do you end up? Frugality should be taken relatively. When I was in college, it made sense for me to do certain things, like riding the bus and asking friends for rides to the store. Now I’m making a salary, should I forget all what I’ve learned? Instead of biking to school, I’m rolling down my windows on a fuel efficient car. It’s all relative, but the concept is the same: Earn a dollar, save a penny. When you start earning $1,000,000 you think about saving $10,000.
People always feel that more money is that answer, when the real benefit comes from saving. You always hear excuses like “We’ll I don’t drive me so I can buy a gas guzzler” or on the flip side “my car gets good mileage so I can run my AC all day and don’t need to shop around for gas”. People sometimes surprise me, but then again, that’s why there world is where it is.
Finally, he’s a further idiot because he doesn’t understand the purpose of this blog and blogs like it. The Dude and Dudette are teaching others how to be frugal from their experiences. As I said, college students would benefit immensely from this knowledge. If you’re trading on Wall street, what are you doing reading this blog?
Hey, some people are idiots then there’s the rest. Keep up the good work Dude.
Presentation aside, the commenter brings up a good point. If frugality is a good defense, earning more is a good offense. Also, playing defense is usually at the expense of the offense (frugality takes time that could be spent earning more) and playing offense often means neglecting the defense (taking a class, working extra hours means less time to prepare meals, comparison shop, and do other frugal activities).
It’s true that some rich people don’t care about things we all try to do to save money, but we truly believe that it is our way to gain wealth and retire early. That’s enough. We really don’t care what other people think 🙂
Frugality works at all levels. Look at Warren Buffet, second richest guy in the world! He still lives in Omaha, Nebraska driving the same truck and living in the same little house he has been in for years!
Why would we want to stress ourselves out with high-powered jobs making more money just to spend that money on wasteful things like buying lunch everyday?
I would rather work at a conservative paying job without the stress and find ways to reduce wasting money along the way.